Wednesday, September 3, 2008

Super Diagram Turbo Version 2

For the chart below I contacted SSF2T players from all over the US (plus, as of this new version, one player from across the Atlantic) and asked them for their take on their favorite characters' match-ups. A '1' means their character has a big disadvantage. A '9' means they've got a big advantage. '5' means even.

The values in the +/- column indicate the difference between the sum of all the values in the row and the baseline value of 80.

Thank you again to everybody who helped out!

Version 1 is here. Additional discussion here.

EDIT: Added Graham's opinion re: Boxer. Also UltraDavid put together a new chart comparing different ST tier rankings; see below.

EDIT2: Added Rambo's opinion re: Dhalsim.

EDIT3: Took one point off Blanka-Dhalsim.

Ryu-6776756367664436+9John Choi
-6574544356453336-7David Doyle
-5586663377776437+10Jesse Howard
4.5-5.564.5664365.56555.546+2.5Wes Truelson
O.Ken55-87772288874627+13Jesse Howard
48-96747396517719+13Justin Wong
E.Honda332-4674677725546-2Bill Gould
4677-8245236855440Chris Doyle
4547-556446555559+4Jeron Grayson
5658449-277765245+6Axel Kelly
Dhalsim66.58564.587-86775676+23Jason Cole
66.56444.577-75.5654565.5+9John Rambo
6.567554.577-75.5764.5576+16Arturo Sanchez
T.Hawk553433.5574-5561.5444-11Henry Cen
5.55-45.554.543.5-3.54.5445.535.5-8Jason Wilson
Cammy3550447279-523624-12James Chen
3421465625-543317-19Jeron Grayson
Fei-Long44.5-3.54.5464465.5-44444-9Jason Wilson
DeeJay4.55.56857.575.5477.56-564.56+15Afro Legends
Boxer66.575564.5656.5765-55.55.5+11.5Afro Legends
5447578446994-627+11Julien Beasley
6657675868.5776-566+21.5Henry Cen
66664.5645.556676-64.56+11.5Graham Wolfe
Claw66636897579964-43+18Julien Beasley
54575676587766-66+16Julian Robinson
O.Sagat777474663677654-4+10John Choi
688788883887852-5+27Jason Nelson
999757791995742-7+26Justin Wong
Dictator5443566546774371--3Julien Beasley
4343345547645555--8Professor Jones
55-4445.56545.56544.54.5--3Jason Wilson

Tier List Analysis (click to enlarge)


  1. Umm,

    Justin Wong:

    O.Ken - DeeJay = 1-9

    How is this possible?

  2. I have been playing several match ips over and over since the last post. I would like to change and tighten up several of my numbers.... I know you're going to Kill me! I'd like to change claw to a 3, Dj to a 2, Guile to a 4.

    I beleive I ranked Zangief at a 5 the first time around, you labeled him as a 3. Tsk, tsk Nohoho! LOL!

    Can't believe I missed that the first time I looked at it!

    Thanks again for asking for my input!


  3. ^^^^ That would boost his value by 6. It would raise his points From -29 to -23. (If I understnd the math).

    Maybe.. I am taking this too seriously! Or maybe I am just getting too excited! Either way I just wanted to share!


  4. How is Vega and O. Sagat vs Blanka considered a 1? I can understand the DJ and Boxer numbers but Blanka is easily a 3.5 - 4 or better in my book. :-)


  5. can anyone write up who the european players on this chart are and what their nicknames are? apart from le professeur, of course.
    kinda surprised that chunli1 wasn't asked to contribute.

  6. can you explain the reasoning behind the 5:5 blanka vs. gief, fatboy? find this an interesting opinion.
    I always considered this to be a very bad matchup for gief. blanka c.hp destroys gief, and he has to mash c.lp and pray to get close.

  7. naw, thats alright. you missed the, "plus 1 across the atlantic".^^

    And getting Prof. to add to Dic is good. He has the proper credibility under his belt.

    After giga msx and some1 else, he´s right up there for Dic outside of Japan.

  8. To Decoy,
    I donno man, have you play Giga MSX's O.Sagat, or Choi's, Valle's, or Coles. They don't make mistakes.

    The game comes down to whether or not you decide to jump in with Jab nor not. You have to decide is Sagat going to AA with standing fierce or is he going to TU me? Depending on which changes your jump-in.

    A good O.Sagat will trade everything in his favor.

    He has to throw out a stupid fireball or choose to jump in somewhere for Blanka to gain the advantage. IMHO.

    I think somewhere Komoda Blanka said the Sagat match is very difficult for Blanka as well. IIRC. I could be wrong though.

    PS.... Check a post or two above yours for changes I made.

    :) ~FatBoy

  9. beasley dict loses 9-1 to o.sagat

    lol, wtf

  10. Made some requested changes to Fatboy @ Blanka and UltraDavid @ Honda and Gief.

    I beleive I ranked Zangief at a 5 the first time around, you labeled him as a 3. Tsk, tsk Nohoho! LOL!

    Hey hey I didn't change anything. Original file is on my hard drive last modified july 13th. I'm second guessing the 4-6 vs. Dhalsim since Komoda said the match was pretty hopeless in that INH interview but in general my opinion is the same as it was a month and a half ago.

  11. I hear ya fatboy and I can understand why you would think that way but maybe it's just me. I've played Valle's and Giga's O. Sagats and to be honest, I didn't think it was that bad at all. Granted, it's online but matchups are matchups and if Sagat was such a monster vs Blanka it would also show online to an extent.

    Also, I really don't think mistakes are what Blanka needs to win that matchup either. Just a little outside the box thinking. I don't play a conventional Blanka so maybe that's why I speak with such foolish words lol. But hey, a character only loses to another character UNTIL someone shows you a more effective way to play that fight.

    BTW, I also don't agree with some of the other numbers but I'll defer to the better players opinion. I'm a HF Blanka player first before I'm an ST player.

    Either way, I think the table is terrific reference material so a HUGE thank you to everyone who took the time to give their input especially Nohoho. Great job!


  12. Decoy,
    Well the simple answer could be that you’re a better Blanka player than I am!

    I have no qualms conceding that! I have no ego to bruise! LOL

    They say half of being smart is knowing what you’re dumb at! I am sure there is more to learn!

    I would love to hear your thoughts!


  13. Hey, I just saw this now, since I've been way out of the ST loop lately. Great job on it!

    I actually did something similar to this, using my own made-up matchup chart, but with one difference: I made a "tournament version" of the figures by weighing them against the estimated popularity of each opposing character.

    For example, at a high-level U.S. tournament, I think ~15% will play Claw, ~10% will play Ryu, ~2% will play Blanka, and so forth.

    The results in my version were interesting. Like O.Sagat, who looks amazing on paper, started to look less attractive because the few unfavorable matches he does have are against popular characters like Dhalsim and Claw.

    Someone like Guile, who looked alright at first glance, tends to be a weak metagame choice because 3 of the popular choices (Dhalsim, Claw, O.Sagat) give him a hard time, and Boxer is no cakewalk either.

    Just something I messed around with...

  14. I'm surprised O.Ken is so high up on those tiers. He's even above Ryu on some of them!